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Post by JI on Jun 5, 2004 23:13:46 GMT 8
A cogent argument but flawed nevertheless, what you are saying is that rollerblading is an invention not an expression( i.e: you draw parallels with the inventon of the alphabet). I believe that it is not, I believe expressionism in this form is closer to an art form. The old man you were refering to is wrong, according to him; it seems that ideas are never new, how flawed is that? Are you stating that all this evolution in mankind have been latent in the minds of apes? Our ancestors had the 'idea' for an atomic supercollider( i.e: something you use to ram atoms at atoms to split them in the search of more miniscule matter)? You must be joking my friend, the old man you were referring to must be incredibly ignorant on the very concept of what ideas are meant to be. As for the further tweaking of tricks, is that idea of tweaking it yours truly? Or did you see it in a DB mag somewhere. Expression requires inspiration, we are of course talking about true expression in its purest form. Picasso had been inspired not by pure genius but true the understanding of what art meant to him personally. That was the genius of him, he could express his true ideas though within the framework of art albeit unconventional art. My point is true expression need not be defined by what other ppl think that expression ought to be. If i like doing cartwheels with my skates worn on my hands, let me be; it could be tougher that your 25 stair double set disaster fish brain. I believe, our sport should not be dictated by our so called' heroes of rollerblading', true their tricks might be super tech; but what is the point in restricting ourselves to what they deem as the future of rollerblading. Fraser, you also seem to be naive when it comes to the economics of things. How many ppl set up skate companies for the love of it? Its all for profits, if they loved the scene so much, do you think skates will cost half as much as they do now? Most skates are made in China anyways; picture the profit margin and then measure the love. That is the state we are at, we make ourselves believe that rollerblading is a lifestyle yet we live it like any other form of consumerism, albeit we are confused by the very industry puppets we deem stand for us. At least, with a product say Prada, there has never been the misconception that they are pro-designer label fans(i.e: we support you our fans of designer goods). Here in our scene, all skate companies say we are pro-scene and blah blah blah....if they really were, the economics of scale would discourage the amount of companies on the rise( that is if they were operating by the tenets of love they propound), this is obviously not the case. Yet, we trudge on consuming goods we are led to believe we need in the sake of our sport. More bullshit fraser, more bullshit. It is human nature to want to flock and follow, let's just not make it too easy for the wolves.
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Post by 3RiC on Jun 6, 2004 0:20:41 GMT 8
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Post by iglue on Jun 6, 2004 0:34:20 GMT 8
fuckit im not reading that
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Post by ray on Jun 6, 2004 0:37:43 GMT 8
i aint readin either.. got too tired reading too much of college text..
expressions.....
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Post by JI on Jun 6, 2004 9:16:07 GMT 8
haha, i was practising my typing skills...
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Post by fraser on Jun 6, 2004 17:49:02 GMT 8
i will make it simple for u. 1. if u look at your theory of atomic shit i BET you , that u can find that it can be derived from several other theories combined. sure everything starts from somewhere, but from then on, its just an evolution from simple concepts. and please dont compare us to apes, since that has nothing to do with this? 2. i havent read DB or watched a new video in ages. so anything i do, is done for myself and not just cause i saw it somewhere. you may skate like that but i know lots who do not. 3. its not being dictated by anyone. u do what u wanna do. no one forces you to follow the trend. why the hell do you wear pants instead of a sarong? be creative ! dont follow the trend! its your choice. 4. i have ACTUALLY met some of the people who start those companies. and i can tell you that not all of them are as rich as u may have been lead to believe. (ask yeng on this. BHS has a super flash ride dont u think?  )and some of them actually DO it for the sport. fuck your economics. this isnt an economic class. this is about moral values. sure they need to make some money to survive. is that wrong? if you do work you should benefit. shit dude. dont diss people unless u know the whole story. lots of them are nice guys. people gotta make a living too. just because they make money doesnt mean thats their primary objective. open your eyes. not everything is one sided. oh and btw, without some of those guys our sport would be HALF as great as it is now. so before you get all high and mighty, think about what they done for us as a community before you start pointing fingers. |
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Post by fraser on Jun 6, 2004 18:11:50 GMT 8
and about your economic statement. you want them to sell it cheaper so that they have a chance of losing money and going bankrupt?
think about it. for every 1000 pairs of skates that sell, what if there is a 1000 that doesnt sell. lets face it. were a small market. its not like every average joe buys our skates.
our skates are getting made of better and better materials.
those companies sponsor people.
they help run competitions.
they make clothes so we dont wear "VANS" on our t-shirts all the damn time.
you think all of that is free?
ok well if u think its possible to do ALL those things super cheap, and be able to support yourself, then by all means buddy. STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND SWING. im guessing third times not a charm for u.
and these pros like it or not are role models for the younger generation. i think they are doing quite a good job. would u prefer a bam margera ? ever wonder why we dont get as many little shits as skate boarders do? think about it. our industry has gotten so much better. if u think u can do better , do it. otherwise dont sit with your thumbs up your ass and whine.
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Post by H1ghr0773r on Jun 6, 2004 20:19:16 GMT 8
both of you really do have substance to argue about and yes nothing is better than verbal masturbation going on in here to let the rest of the kids out there look at the industry at a bigger picture. and both of you have been in the sport / industry long enough directly or indirectly to know what is going on.
yes the scene has gotten better from where it started. things have settled down alot. there is always this arguement about making money on something that you love. for me and I think Keats too, we are not business oriented enough and we don't have the heart to charge kids and wanting to make money. we will counted the overheads to run the company but we will not be filthy rich form running a skating business. sides if we wanted to make money, we would be selling chicken rice since it's alot easier to run away from tax.
at the end of the day, from my point of view, we all need to contribute back to the industry in some ways or another even if it's as simple as getting a new kid to start skating. you gain my respect if you can do at least to the industry and not be talking bad about it and ignorantly leave without a footmark. things will die eventually like every soul on this earth. and skating will evolve in some way and many but root down, there isnt much that has changed from the day i put on my first pair of skates. i dont see the fancy in a pair of skates as much like back in the days. as long it does what i wanted it to do, i'm cool.
yeah guys, do you know where i drew my insparation to do the "YENGA GRIND" or better known in the real skating world a pud slide in which so happen to be first done by Nick Riggle the same time i was learning it but didnt master it?
skateboarding's 5-0 grind
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Post by FluffntechHarry on Jun 6, 2004 21:41:58 GMT 8
no offence to anyone at all... because im sure u all know your shit.... but it seems to me like u guys are thinking too much... just skate and have fun... if its not fun dont skate... its not an obligation.. its just something to do for fun... for me anyway its not about expressing urself or any of that stuff... its just somethin u do for fun with ur friends
u guys should just take it lightly... forget the politics and all that...
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Post by JI on Jun 6, 2004 21:42:34 GMT 8
First off,
Let me state this in plain terms, unlike some juvenile kid who resorts to the usage of cuss words to get his point across, I will not resort to it myself. It shows a lack of maturity, one question, how can someone make a point worth listening to when he has trouble expressing himself without using cuss words?
1) The inability to grasp the ape-supercollider scenario by Fraser truly reflects the sheer nonsense he is talking about. He cannot even recognise the concept that he introduced to the forum.( the point is, according to him, no ideas are new), What you have done at one go, is a major discredit to all the men and women that have contributed ideas and inspirations to society. According to Fraser's theory, all ideas are unoriginal and that leads on to the fact that if all ideas all unoriginal, no one should be deemed worthy of its credit. Ideas are based on the concept of independence and inspiration. Please don't state rubbish like it is contrary to that, it is our ideas that define humanity.
2) Fraser also believes that economics have nothing to do with the debate, his ignorance buggers belief. Money talks and bullshit walks, this is what makes the world go round. You state, you've met the pros, my point is so what? It sounds like nothing more than hero worship, sheer childish hero worship. My hero says that, my hero says this. Open your eyes, they are businessmen, conning juveniles is what they do best, you obviously have been conned big time. I don't have a problem with ppl making money of me as long as they state they're intentions out in the open and not hide behind principles that are sheer nonsense. A sucessful business deserves profits, con men don't. You state that skaters don't live bling lives and love the industry. They're sorry lives are THE industry, all they know is how to skate, they have no choice but to say they love it and consequentially live it. Your moral debate is a bunch of crap and i won't even go there. Fraser, you obviously live in a world where Mcdonalds is really managed by a kid-loving clown and where all businesses have principles and morals. Don't let your hero-worshipping ways cloud your judgement and take on the reality of things. Please get a grasp on what economics mean and morals entail befoe you even start talking about it. Your arguments are tired and go off at a tangent most of the time, they are also incohesive, predictable and most of all ignorant about the realities of industry. Little boys shouldn't think that they make sense.
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Post by JI on Jun 6, 2004 21:46:05 GMT 8
Torie, its fun, politics is always fun...come poke at the underbelly of the dragon.
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Post by fraser on Jun 7, 2004 0:01:08 GMT 8
ji you are just spouting yet are not showing the slightest bit of evidence. like i have TOLD you that not all of them are rich like u think. not all of them make shit loads of money. if you think THEY are to blame, why dont you go and have a look at their cost prices. then maybe all your "oh gee i think they are earning too much" will dissapear and you will realize that your third person, the person your BUYING your skates from usually have a high profit margin.This is actual seen truth unlike your rumour bullshit. and i may swear when i like, when i like. and from when i remember YOU, mr. high and mighty, SO do you. so get OFF your fucking pedestal and stop thinking your better than you really are. so once you get your facts straight, then you go ahead and write an article and post it in some newpaper about how (boohoo) you pay too much. hero worship? they have my respect. they arent heroes, but i still respect them for what they have done, since they have done alot more than you or i. i respect them not cause they skate good, but cause they are nice wholesome people, not the demons you think. so dont spoil someone elses name because you dont have a good one of your own. they work alot harder and do more for the industry than you ever have. so respect them for that. Dont speak of what you havent seen. you may think you know what your talking about, but you dont.
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Post by fraser on Jun 7, 2004 0:18:25 GMT 8
you know what, u can say what u want. im not going to bother replying. i know for a fact that alot of the pros that do own businesses are not just out there for the money. but you believe whatever. its haters like YOU that cause shit. You havent done ANYTHING for the sport, but u hate on people who have. sure there are some who are out there for money, but there is never 100% in anything. u probably just hate cause your jealous dude.
peace out.
contrary to whatever people say, skaters are there for other skaters. I am gonna buy skater stuff made by skaters,cause i would rather that, then buy it from someone who doesnt know what they are doing.
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Post by ray on Jun 7, 2004 1:04:06 GMT 8
cool stuffs dudes...
i havent been watchin skate vids for a long time, but heck i'm havin fun wit skatin......
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Post by ray on Jun 7, 2004 1:10:08 GMT 8
most ideas these days are altered but still it could be considered original cos it is unique on its own.
some say rollerblading is an invention, expression...etc.
its not about definition thats important * the reason pend. moral is so fucked up.
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)and some of them actually DO it for the sport. fuck your economics. this isnt an economic class. this is about moral values. sure they need to make some money to survive. is that wrong? if you do work you should benefit. shit dude. dont diss people unless u know the whole story. lots of them are nice guys. people gotta make a living too. just because they make money doesnt mean thats their primary objective. open your eyes. not everything is one sided. 